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#124 – Mina Tamang on SEO Techniques That Prioritise the User Experience

[00:00:00] Nathan Wrigley: Welcome to the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.

Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, putting user experience at the heart of your SEO strategy.

If you’d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice, or by going to forward slash feed forward slash podcast. And you can copy that URL into most podcast players.

If you have a topic that you’d like us to feature on the podcast, I’m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to forward slash contact forward slash jukebox, and use the form there.

So on the podcast today, we have Mina Tamang. Mina works as an SEO expert at Codewing Solutions. She has over six years of experience in the industry. In the past three years, she’s also become actively involved in the WordPress community, and she recently spoke at WordCamp Katmandu, which is where she lives.

In this episode, Mina shares her journey and experiences in SEO, detailing how she discovered her love for the field, and how it has evolved over time.

She’s a seasoned public speaker with experience in Toastmasters, and she brought her ideas to the stage at WordCamp Asia this year.

Unlike traditional SEO methods that can sometimes prioritize keyword research to achieve top search engine rankings, Mena champions a user first approach. She explains what she sees as the limitations of outdated practices, and emphasizes the importance of understanding, and addressing the pain points, and needs of your audience. Her central idea is always towards benefiting the end user rather than just appeasing search engines.

We talk about the significance of integrating both traditional SEO rules, and user centric content creation, and get into the relevance of technical optimizations, speed factors, and the role of WordPress plugins. For those new to website building, she underscores the user-friendliness of WordPress and its compatibility with her SEO strategies.

It’s 2024, and so we also discussed the growing influence of AI in content generation. Recognizing its utility, whilst cautioning on the necessity of maintaining a human element to ensure content is relatable and free from in accuracies.

If you’re looking to refine your SEO strategies with a focus on longterm, user oriented, growth, whilst also navigating the complexities of modern tools and techniques, this episode is for you.

If you’d like to find out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to forward slash podcast, where you’ll find all the other episodes as well.

A quick note before we begin, this is the last live recording from WordCamp Asia. There was quite a lot of background noise to contend with, and I’d done my best to clean up the audio and make it as easy to listen to as possible.

And so without further delay, I bring you Mena Tamang.

I am joined on the podcast today by Mina Tamang. How are you doing?

[00:03:45] Mina Tamang: I’m doing good.

[00:03:46] Nathan Wrigley: Nice to have you on the podcast today. You said this is your first podcast appearance?

[00:03:50] Mina Tamang: Yeah.

[00:03:51] Nathan Wrigley: Are you prepared for your talk at WordCamp Asia? Are you ready to go?

[00:03:55] Mina Tamang: So it’s actually tomorrow.

[00:03:56] Nathan Wrigley: Okay.

[00:03:57] Mina Tamang: Probably at 10:00 AM. Track four.

[00:03:59] Nathan Wrigley: And have you done much public speaking in the past?

[00:04:02] Mina Tamang: Yeah, I have, I have. Because I’m engaged with the Toastmasters. So do you know anything about Toastmasters?

[00:04:08] Nathan Wrigley: No.

[00:04:08] Mina Tamang: So actually it’s about making the people learn about the communication skill, as well as leadership skills. And there we also learn about public speaking, so I’ve done it. Not in the big stage, but smaller stage, but I’ve done it.

[00:04:22] Nathan Wrigley: So today we’re going to talk about SEO, and that is what your talk is about at WordCamp Asia. Before we do that, can you just tell us a little bit about your background, where you come from, what organisation you work for? Do you work in the SEO field? So just give us a little biography.

[00:04:38] Mina Tamang: Sure. So I am Mina Tamang, and I came from the land of Himalayas, so from Nepal. And for the past 6 years I’ve been doing the SEO, and SEO is like my passion. So I’ve started from the SEO, and I’m never thinking of like leaving it. So that’s what I do.

And I work for the Codewing Solution, which is also a WordPress development company, that build WordPress themes, plugins. And I got to know about WordPress more in detail by joining this company, back in I think 2020, during the Covid time. And then I got to learn about the WordPress community. And I saw so many opportunities, and ever since then, I’ve been engaging with the WordCamps, either by being attendee or by the speakers, and that much more to explore. So yeah, I’m doing this thing right now.

[00:05:26] Nathan Wrigley: So, SEO is your day-to-day?

[00:05:29] Mina Tamang: Yeah.

[00:05:30] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. So the talk that you are putting on is all about this different way of doing SEO. You mentioned that there’s an old way, which obviously you don’t use, and there’s a new way. What is the old way, and why do you not do it that way anymore? What is it that’s wrong with that, and what’s your new way?

[00:05:48] Mina Tamang: So when I started doing SEO, so what I was taught was, it’s a search engine optimisation. So we need to rank website on top. Maybe number one. And then it’ll help to increase traffic on our website. And that will lead to the business success, or whatever the goal is.

So that’s what people think still now, and that’s what I was taught. And that’s a very vanity things like, what people think and feel about SEO, it’s all about ranking, and about the traffic. But it’s not. That’s the old way of SEO.

So now, those ranking and those traffic are just numbers. What we need to focus is on the business goal. So let me go more detail. There’s three types of SEO. There is a black hat SEO, grey hat SEO, and white hat SEO.

So if we follow all the rules of Google’s, or any search engines, that’s a white SEO. And in white SEO we talk about page optimisations, technical optimisations, speed factors, and backlinks, and many more things, content creation.

And there is a black hat, which is like doing opposite of what you need to be doing. It’s basically like breaking all the rules and laws.

And there’s a grey hat, the middle part. So mix of the white and the black. So that’s what people think about SEO. And there are a lot of people who do white, there are a lot of people do black, and the grey, but I’m not talking about those.

So what I’m talking about is, the people think that SEO is all about ranking and increase the traffic, but that’s wrong. Because when you do that, you prioritise the search engine. Let’s say Google. You are working for Google, not for your audience. And your audience is people, not the bots. So what you need to do is to put your user first. Think about the pain points, and their needs. So if people are searching for how to use, for example, mobile, then selling your phone directly is not your main thing to do.

First you need to educate them. How that phone is going to be useful for them in the day-to-day daily uses. So that’s how you will be dealing with the SEO. So that’s why I wanted to. And in my new way of doing SEO, my focus is always on the users. So that’s what wanted to say.

[00:08:04] Nathan Wrigley: So if we do things in the old way, and we regard the whole project of SEO of getting to the top of the search ranking, and we want to be number one so that we get discovered more often. The rules for doing that are obvious, well, not obvious, but everybody has slowly learned what those rules are, we’ve got plugins in WordPress to make that happen.

Does your technique, well, is it easier to do your technique? It certainly sounds more human to do your technique. But, does it have the same impact? If I follow your template, the way that you are going to tell us that you are doing SEO, will I still rise to the top of the search ranking? Because it kind of feels like that’s always the point. You want to be number one. Does it work, your technique, to get us to number one?

[00:08:48] Mina Tamang: Yes. So my point is, we don’t want to be number one. Because being a number one does not guarantee for your business success, or whatever your metrics is. For example, if I’m selling a product, and my goal is, or my main target is to sell my product, right? And I’m ranking on all the keywords that I wanted, but my business success, the metrics, that goal is not happening. So what’s the point of being number one.

So we can be still in the number one, and also drive the more sales. For that, we need to focus on the users. I’m not talking about doing all the manual things. We do take help of tools, like plugins. For example, Yoast. But whatever we do, the focus should be done whatever, like, for example, when you do the content creation, if I give you a content that is all written by the AI, and does not meet your pain points, would you converting to my customer?

So their needs and the human intellect don’t necessarily clarify what works for you. For my customers, what are the pain points? So that needs to be done by the human. If it’s done by the human, they will actually know the pain points. And we’ll obviously take the help of tools, and plugins, and anything else.

[00:09:57] Nathan Wrigley: So, is it even fair to call this SEO? Because if you’re not really putting a great deal of thought into the search engine, SEO obviously stands for Search Engine Optimisation, can your system even fairly be called SEO, because you’re not really giving too much thought about where you’re going to end up in search?

[00:10:16] Mina Tamang: Okay, so let me clarify that. So yes, I’m obviously working for the SEO. There are certain rules like, when we talk about SEO rules, there’s a meta title, descriptions, and there are also link, and there also keywords. I’m not teaching all those things. But whatever I do, I keep in mind the users.

There was a time when people used to stuff keywords within a content at massive numbers. That used work. But does that work now? It doesn’t. So there are certain rules that need to be followed, and we will obviously follow those. But whenever doing the marketing, whether it’s content through videos or everything, we put the user first. And Google itself put the user first. They want the user to get the useful information from the good website, not from the spammy website, that does everything for the search engines.

So there comes the trust factor. So, yes, it’s called SEO, we do follow all the rules, because I’m just talking about the content creations, there are other factor as well. When we do the SEO, we also look after the technical things. We have to collaborate with developers, there are changes needed. Okay, this one is not good by looking at the user experience factor, like speed, the designs, everything there is. So we do that as well. And when it comes to doing the content creation, I’m focusing on that part. So in that sense, we need to put the user first.

[00:11:36] Nathan Wrigley: Give us an example of how you actually do this. So let’s take the example, you mentioned mobile phones, but we could do anything. You’re obviously thinking about the purchaser at the end, the customer, the client, whatever it may be. Just talk us through the process that you are going through in your company, to make this all happen.

[00:11:53] Mina Tamang: Okay. So for example, my company sells product, right? So I need to put that, my product, to the audience. People need to know we exist. For that, obviously we will follow all the SEO rules. We need to put the most important keywords within a title, my description within a content, and we will also do the content marketing, video marketing. So then, when we emphasise or highlight the features, we don’t focus on them, we focus more on the benefits. So, how the product is going to help them. I’ll give you a simple example, not about a product, but real example. So, do you know about back scratcher?

[00:12:30] Nathan Wrigley: I can imagine. So something to literally scratch your back with. Okay.

[00:12:34] Mina Tamang: So maybe there was a time it was not discovered, not made, so people used their hands to scratch the back, right? So then they made the product. Now, how did the company sell this? Maybe in those time, there was no internet, or online things to promote things, right? So maybe they sell down the street by showing that back scratcher, doing by themselves.

See, how did the audience connect it? Okay, there’s a thing, like this long thing, a stick that can be used to scratch our back. And they did it with their pain points. There are parts that we can’t reach with our hand, right? That’s a simple product in itself. So that’s what I’m trying to tell. Whenever we do the marketing of our product, we need to emphasise the benefits instead of features.

[00:13:19] Nathan Wrigley: Your process is about choosing the right language, and instead of concentrating relentlessly, which is I think what most people do, on keywords and all of that stuff, you are explaining, and in this case it’s a product, back scratcher, you are explaining the benefits. And you believe that by just explaining the benefits, you can creep, well, not creep up the search ranking because that isn’t what you’re trying to do, but you can become discovered because you are using this language.

[00:13:47] Mina Tamang: Yeah. And that’s what I want to focus in is the word of mouth. Because the person, like the product, he is going to obviously tell to his friends, colleague, or anyone that this product is useful. Also I’m pointing out, and this might not fall under SEO, or beyond the SEO, but it goes along with the SEO, because the SEO doesn’t fall under the marketing or the sales, it’s in between.

So we work with sales team as well as marketers, our work is that. So I wanted to focus that word of mouth is a good way of promoting the market. And other thing is we can focus on all the stuff as well. Content, video, and obviously there’s a backlink, but that also comes with the, there’s two things.

We can do it by paid, or the free one. Free is organic, it’s quite difficult to do it. And we also need to consider where the business stands. Is it just in the oldest days of the market? Is it in the mid, or is it in the exploring stage? We also need to consider those things as well. So there are a lot of things to consider.

[00:14:46] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. When you explain this to your clients, I’m guessing that most clients will have this notion of, well, no, no, no, we need to use loads of keywords, and we need to ram the keywords in as much as possible, because that’s the understanding of SEO that they have. Do you get a lot of pushback from your clients when you explain, no, no, no, we’re not doing any of that, we’re just going to concentrate on the benefits, and explain them in easy to understand language, and hopefully get discovered. And a bit of word of mouth as well?

[00:15:12] Mina Tamang: Yeah, a lot, a lot. Because as I said earlier, people think SEO is about keywords, ranking and traffic. So whenever they ask for the report, and we have to tell them, okay, we have this much as traffic, this much conversion, but they want certain keywords to be ranked. And we say them, look, here’s your report, this is looking good.

And SEO is something that does not go at once at all. It’ll not skyrocket at once, it’ll take time. So that thing is very difficult to make them understand, that SEO takes time, and ranking for every keyword is not the main goal. Our main goals should be on the business goal, that is to sell the service, product, or anything else that they want us to do. And it’s very hard, and we need to educate them as well. Look, here my pain point is, they don’t understand the SEO. What is SEO? And we need to educate them.

[00:16:01] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, because I can imagine that, if you’ve launched a client website, and we’ll use the example of a back scratcher, if they’re selling back scratches, within few weeks your customer is going to be going to a search engine, let’s use the example of Google, and they’re going to be typing in a whole range of things, they will hit the return key on their computer, and they’re hoping to see their website on the first page. Number one, number two, number three. They’re hoping to see that happen.

From what you are saying, you are telling your clients, look, don’t obsess about that. Stop worrying about becoming first page, number one, number two, whatever it may be. Let’s concentrate just on making the messaging right. And then if we do that all correctly, it should just follow on that the sales will begin. I’m guessing that your clients do come to you and say, well, where are we? We’re not anywhere on the search. I’m guessing that happens.

[00:16:46] Mina Tamang: Yeah. So, as I said, when we focus on the benefits and on the users, with time it’ll automatically rank. So see if we start with the focus on ranking, then that might be a temporary success. It won’t be the permanent. But if you focus on the user and benefits, with time our website will obviously rank, because there’s a factor called user experience and the SEO, and that matters a lot for most of the search engine. So ultimately, we will rank as well, and also get the organic, consistent, organic traffic. So that’s my goal.

[00:17:16] Nathan Wrigley: So, it sounds like this is a much more simple approach in many ways. It’s more straightforward, because you’re not obsessing about, I don’t know, spreadsheets with all the keywords in, and writing down the numbers of clicks, and all of that. All of that goes out the window, and you’re just concentrating on easy, straightforward language. And it’s a long game. You’re not trying to do this in the next week or month.

You are saying to your customers, okay, let’s look at it more over a year, or two years, or something like that. Right, okay. So it’s a much, much longer game, but easier to do, because really all that you’re doing is worrying about the language, right? So it’s easier.

[00:17:51] Mina Tamang: Yeah, it might be. I wouldn’t say it’s easier, but we have to be consistent because people might get frustrated about not getting the result. So like there are people.

[00:18:01] Nathan Wrigley: Yes, I can imagine they would, yeah.

[00:18:02] Mina Tamang: Especially clients. They worry about, where is the results? Where are we? What are the status about the rankings, traffic? But it takes time, so it’s for the long run. And we need to be consistently hoping that it will go right.

[00:18:15] Nathan Wrigley: And do the search engines, more and more, take other metrics? So it’s not just the keywords. You mentioned things like the performance of the website so, you know, we’ve got things like core web vitals, and all of the bits and pieces that are rolled into that. The speed of the site, obviously the quality of the content itself. There’s more to the search engine than just keywords. It’s about the performance, it’s about the way the site is designed, it’s about the speed of the server, all of those things.

[00:18:41] Mina Tamang: Yeah. So what Google is trying to do, it’s trying to help the users by implementing all those factors for all the SEOs and the business owners. What they want is that users get best results from the good website. And for that, all these factors are important, like for the speed. So if your website is not going to load, then people will obviously get frustrated and not get the result, and they have to go from one to another place. And that will obviously take their time.

And when it comes to other content creations, if they are going to website to get information to solve their problems, and they’re not getting it. So that means, ultimately, Google wants to help its users, and that’s why they’re implementing all those rules. And all those are just factors. I wouldn’t say that’s a ranking factors. People take it as a ranking factor, but when we look after all those things like speed, core web vitals, it doesn’t have to be perfect.

Because when you focus on making all the factors perfect, you might fall into practice of making like your website less useful for users. For example, you’ve made your core web vitals like a 100% score, but certain features of your website does not load while doing that, which was very important to your audience to engage with their product. Then losses are yours. So we need to mention at least balance. So we need a balance.

[00:19:56] Nathan Wrigley: You are at a WordPress conference. Are you using WordPress tools? I think you used word Yoast I think a minute ago. So, is your approach based on WordPress plugins that you use, or is this just about using the block editor, creating paragraphs, and writing text which is adjacent to whatever it is that you are trying to market and sell?

[00:20:15] Mina Tamang: So I am using plugin. WordPress is a lot easier for the beginners. Those people who does not know about anything about technology, about how to build a website, and how to run it. So it’s quite helpful tool. And I am using it, and I’m also using for my clients, and for all the people that I tell how to build a website. And it’s definitely going to help.

But actually it’s not just for the WordPress, it’s for all the other platform as well. The process, the rules are same for every website. Either it’s a big, either it’s small. What’s it built on? It’s either the WordPress or Shopify. People call it Shopify SEO. The process, the rules are same. Just we are taking the help of the plugins and the other tools.

[00:20:56] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. So there’s no particular plugin that you recommend over another one. WordPress plugins will work for your approach, and you’re concentrating on the words that you create.

[00:21:04] Mina Tamang: Yeah, you can use it. I would definitely recommend using Yoast or Rank Math, for those who don’t know much about SEO, but don’t prioritise it to make it a perfect score. That’s what I’d say.

[00:21:14] Nathan Wrigley: We’re in the era of AI, and people are making lots and lots of content nowadays with AI. You go to OpenAI, or some other AI, and you ask it to produce a 10,000 word article about back scratchers and it will do it. And will do what looks like a good job. My intuition though is that, it’s probably not doing you any favors, because the content it creates is maybe not actually very human, or potentially is full of inaccuracies. What are your thoughts on AI created content, and how that might affect your ability to rise into the search results?

[00:21:51] Mina Tamang: Okay, so, AI tool is like our arms and legs. It’s a bit like that for now. And I’m also using AI tool, but to clarify on my strategy. AI tool can definitely give you whatever you search. Like what is this? It’ll give you answer. How can I do this? It’ll give you answer. But what doesn’t it give you is the personal experiences. And, how do we more connect with the audience naturally? It’s through the experiences, the learning. So that’s what I think, in my opinion, lacks the AI.

So I’m sort of thinking to moving the strategy towards that. Sharing the experience, getting more the personal level. So in that sense, we can obviously, at least do the good SEO without AI tool. I’m not saying that staying away. I’m also using AI to create the content. But, for example, you are also using AI tool. I’m also using AI tools, for the same topic to write a content. It might give you the similar content, right? So now, how am I going to compete with you? We’ll get the same answer, similar. So that’s where I do my strategy, the new strategy, of putting my personal experience, and some of my human intellect and critical judgment. That’s what I do. I will obviously, take the help of AI. I’m not staying away from it, but I’m using it in a more creative way.

[00:23:07] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. So you are providing additional content, which is, I don’t know, you’re teaching people, back scratcher is kind of a difficult example because I don’t really know that there’s a lot to say about a back scratcher. But the point is, you are going above and beyond what the AI would just give you. And you are saying be helpful, educate the audience, give them things that they want, you know, give them takeaways, give them things that they can enjoy, give them blog posts that are actually meaningful. So being helpful on your website is the goal, over just pure SEO.

Do you use AI to search for things these days? So I’ve really dropped Google as my search engine. I mean, we can go into some of the other search engines that are around there. But I’m increasingly finding myself using AI to find what I want on the internet. So rather than get me to a particular website, if it’s a question, I just want the answer to come out. So I go to OpenAI, and I ask it a direct question, and it gives me the answer. So that’s the other way around. Rather than using AI to create content, do you see that search engines are becoming less visited by people?

[00:24:14] Mina Tamang: For now, it’s not. Maybe in the next 2030, I’m not sure about that. For now, for the short answer that could be answered within like two or three paragraph, people will obviously choose the AI over the search engine. But when it comes to using something like, for example, how to take a photograph, a good photograph, then I might need to check the videos, instead of getting the answers. And they would obviously need a tutorial, right?

So for that, people are still using the search engine, as well as the AI tool. But for the long answer, that needs more tutorial, more of like how to do it, people are using search engine. And for now it’s okay. I don’t know about the future.

Even the Google is promoting the AI, like there’s a generative AI. Whatever I will search something, keywords, they will give the answers automatically. But when I have to use any product, how to use it, like if there’s something problem with my product, any things in my daily life, for example, I crack my phone screen, then how to repair it. Maybe for that I will be using the search engines.

[00:25:14] Nathan Wrigley: Right. Do you concentrate with your clients, do you only talk about Google with your clients? Because I know that there’s quite a few options out there these days. You know, you’ve got Bing. There’s one called Kagi, which I’ve used quite a few times. I’ve used Duck Duck Go quite a few times. Is it all about Google? Is Google the thing?

[00:25:31] Mina Tamang: No. So when I talk about search engine, I talk about everything. Though we do mention Google most of the time, because it is the most used search engine, right? So when I say search engine into the non-tech people, they would say Google. So I have to mention it Google. But I haven’t used other search engine much, like Kagi. I think it’s a premium.

[00:25:50] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, Kagi you pay for. Duck Duck Go is free though. It’s ad supported, you know?

[00:25:54] Mina Tamang: Well, I haven’t used those, but my priority is not search engine. For example, if I put the Google as a priority search engine, as I said, I would not prioritise more on the search engine, more on the users.

[00:26:05] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. So let’s say I’m a client, and I come to you, and I’ve got a shop, and I’m selling, oh I don’t know, let’s say mobile phones. We are going to sit down, and we’re going to have a conversation about, okay, we want a website, we would like it to be discovered. What are the kind of things that you are telling me to go away and do? You’ve mentioned videos. You’ve mentioned things like, well, I’m guessing blog posts and things like that. What’s the kind of content that you want me, your client to make, create?

[00:26:32] Mina Tamang: Okay. So first we need to clarify that SEO is not for every type of website. We need to understand the market, so where the audience is. For the phone, it might be the more of like social media, videos, because people want to see how their phone will look, how it’ll function, rather than like looking at the text. They would prefer the video, visuals. So we need to understand that as well. So first we need to understand the market, your niche. Then only we could recommend what works best for you. And for the example of phone, it’s going to be all of them. It’s also the text, the blogging, the videos, and also the email marketing. Everything will work.

[00:27:09] Nathan Wrigley: So let’s pick a different product then. So not the mobile phone. Let’s think about, oh I don’t know, we’ve got a bookshop. You know, we’ve got physical books, people come in to the shop and they buy things from us. It’s a little bit more of an old technology. You know, maybe there’s less video in there. So how would that be adapted? Bookshop against mobile phone. What would be the difference that you would be getting customers to think about?

[00:27:28] Mina Tamang: So the audience would obviously be the little bit smaller compared to phone, when it comes to book maybe. For the book, I would recommend to do the social media, blogging, and the email marketing, because people do search books. In my country, in Nepal, there are a lot of books that is very hard to find. And then they need to connect with the bookshop owners frequently. And that’s where the social media would be much easier to communicate with them faster. So I would recommend the social media instead of, if I have to choose SEO and social media for the book sales shop, I would prefer this social media. So that’s what I would recommend.

[00:28:05] Nathan Wrigley: It really is a case of talking to the client, and each person that comes through your company’s door, you have a different set of things that you’re encouraging them to do. So it may be YouTube videos, it may be it email, it may be blog posts. And depending on what the product is, you are going to get them to make those bits of content specifically based upon the product that they’ve got. Right, okay. So it seems like it’s the long game. You’re in this, and it’s going to take a year, two years, and what have you.

And it’s working for your company, this strategy, I’m guessing. You know, you’ve got clients coming back, and they’re seeing, not looking at the search results, but they’re seeing that their website is effective for them, and they can tell themselves confidently, okay, we paid your company to help us get the products that we’ve got sold, and it’s working?

[00:28:49] Mina Tamang: So I don’t do much of client work, because I work for the company, and that have their own product. So actually we sell our own product, and it’s working good. Actually is all about trial and testing thing. We need to do AB testing a lot. One strategy is working, that might not work for the other websites. We need to do test again and again. So we do the testing things, and it’s working fine for now.

Everyone have their own style of working. Even if the rules and the format are the same thing, but I would prefer something else. Like, when I write, create content, I like to put it in the story way. And some other companies might not like it. So there’s a working style difference, but, yes, it’s working for me.

[00:29:28] Nathan Wrigley: Obviously this is a WordPress podcast that we’re recording at the moment. Do you use WordPress for all of the sites that you build? Is that part of the company’s mission, or does this strategy that you’ve got work with any platform? You know, be that Squarespace, or Wix, or whatever it may be.

[00:29:40] Mina Tamang: Yeah, it’s worked for everyone. It’s worked for every platform. The SEO is not just for the WordPress. But yes, I am using WordPress and our products is based on WordPress, and all the clients, our customers are all WordPress based. So we do recommend the WordPress plugins, all the things. But it works for everyone.

Maybe the doing things is different. For the WordPress, we use plugin like Yoast or Rank Math, to do all the SEO stuff. In their platform, for example, Shopify, they might have their own tools or plugins to do that same thing in a different product name. So it’s the same.

[00:30:12] Nathan Wrigley: So what is the company that you work for? Where can we find you? Do you have an email address, or a social handle that you’d like to share?

[00:30:19] Mina Tamang: Yeah. I work for the Codewing Solution. You can go and search, it’s And we are also on social media, Facebook, Instagram, and we also have YouTube channels, and all have dedicated product as well. And those have also the social media handles, and also the websites.

[00:30:36] Nathan Wrigley: That’s all the questions that I’ve got. Is there anything that you think we’ve missed, that you’d to address?

[00:30:41] Mina Tamang: I think that’s okay.

[00:30:42] Nathan Wrigley: If that’s the case, I will say thank you very much for chatting to me today, Mina.

[00:30:46] Mina Tamang: Thank you for having me. It was actually a great opportunity to connect with other people, because this is something that I would not get the chance to meet you, and talk with you as well. I definitely grab the opportunity.

On the podcast today we have Mina Tamang.

Mina works as an SEO expert at Codewing Solutions. She has over 6 years of experience in the industry. In the past 3 years, she’s also become actively involved in the WordPress community, and she recently spoke at WordCamp Kathmandu which is where she lives.

In this episode, Mina shares her journey and experiences in SEO, detailing how she discovered her love for the field and how it has evolved over time. She’s a seasoned public speaker with experience in Toastmasters, and she brought her ideas to the stage at WordCamp Asia this year.

Unlike traditional SEO methods that can sometimes prioritise keyword research to achieve top search engine rankings, Mina champions a user-first approach. She explains what she sees as the limitations of outdated practices and emphasises the importance of understanding and addressing the pain points and needs of your audience. Her central idea is always towards benefitting the end-users rather than just appeasing search engines.

We talk about the significance of integrating both traditional SEO rules and user-centric content creation, and get into the relevance of technical optimisations, speed factors, and the role of WordPress plugins. For those new to website building, she underscores the user-friendliness of WordPress and its compatibility with her SEO strategies.

It’s 2024, and so we also discuss the growing influence of AI in content generation, recognising its utility while cautioning on the necessity of maintaining a human element to ensure content is relatable and free from inaccuracies.

If you’re looking to refine your SEO strategies with a focus on long-term, user-oriented growth, while also navigating the complexities of modern tools and techniques, this episode is for you.

Useful links


Codewing Solutions


Rank Math